Thursday, April 8, 2010


This weekend we have an Apoc Game happening at our local warhammer group, something tells me its going to be crazy because our local forums have been buzzing with activity about it and seems like everyone is going.

Not only this but there have been a large amount of home made data sheets up for community approval and lots of questions about "how many big nasty things can i bring?".  Which leads me to the first part of my post subject which will be followed by my IG list ill bring to this game.

Big Nasties in Apoc.....

I guess the question i would ask you first is what does Apoc mean to you, think about it for a second...................................

Ok so for me it means massive battles, huge amounts of units taking up a ping pong table sized board or an entire living room floor.  It means spending literally all day and evening plaything through the one game with your mates while consuming too much sugar, caffine, and pizza.

My vision includes maybe 1 big nasty on each side, 1 beast that annihilates all the little stuff around it each turn.  This 1 big nasty is resilient and around for lets say 4 out of 6 turns before its dragged down, while its around its very killy of course.

The problem around here is thats not quite the way it works out, instead we have 3 out of 5 people who spend 80% of their points on one model, i.e. a titan. They then outfit it with only the best weapons, a notable example is a scratch built Chaos Reaver with 3 Laser Destructors.  What then transpires is that the titans duke it out, taking turns knocking each other out in 1 turn's shooting while what "normal" units are around spend a little time pecking at each other and the whole things ends up feeling kinda lame.

The problem is 2 fold.

  1. D weapons are too good
    1. They shouldn't cause instant death no matter toughness, instead they should just instant death toughness 5 or below like a strength 10 weapon or perhaps cause 2 wounds to models toughness 6 and above.  This would make Tyranid monstrous creatures actually viable in Apoc....
    2. They shouldn't ignore cover saves no matter what, maybe ignore area cover but the mechanics behind cover should still apply in general so that units without an inv. save can maybe stand a chance.  Perhaps make units reroll successful cover saves if you want to make the rule change a little smaller.
    3. Restrict the equipment on these units, or if you dont want to be restrictive, officially "suggest" players restrict the spam of D weapons where other weapon systems are available so that super liberal players dont feel they're going against the game by restricting them.  This goes back to that reaver with triple laser destructor, Apoc is supposed to be a fun game it is so open for abuse you can't possibly step up to an Apoc game and expect a fair fight if players are just out to win.  So whats more fun, the triple weapon titan, or a titan with 3 different weapons systems blasting apart different targets?  well i guess that moves us on to big point 2....
  2. Players
    1. My stand point is come up with a good army that has some fun combo's for killing opponents in it but make sure the force at least partially represents the army and isnt full of cheese meant only to win.
      1. Apoc is the setting where you give out upgrades you wouldn't normally because the points are available and its not math hammer time.  Give that IG sergeant a power sword, give the Russ's side sponsons, ect.   Make your army characterful!
      2. Come up with a theme, for my list against the Tyranids last apoc game i wanted to use a Steel Fury Formation, so i took that and then took my other IG units as sorta the force that protects the formation from assault.  I recently took up Space Wolves, my plan is once i have them ready they will be doing what space marines do....drop podding into the enemy while my IG gun line pounds them from afar and slowly advances.
      3. After you've made your force, step back and say..."does any of this seem cheesy to me, if i were to be playing against it"  If you feel your force is sorta cheesy then adjust it, throw in some fun flavor units that might suck in Penal legion or an Infantry platoon with no heavy weapons....sure they might not be pivtol units but they add a flavor to the battle that when all players do the same is just so much fun.  In my first Apoc game it was an infantry squad with a flamer that captured the last objective on top of a hill to win the game for our side, so you never know!
      4. Try and stay in a single codex army, or at most 2.  If you do go for 2 make sure the split makes sense, like IG and marines, or Marines and Daemohunters.  If your playing xeno's i would simply recommend your two forces fight on different areas, so have your eldar attack from the west while the ork's they tricked into fighting with them attack in the south.
    2. Some players are in it to win it...
      1. if your not able to talk to your team days before the battle, try and listen to other players in the pregame huddle and decide if they're trying to have fun or stack the deck to win.  If they offer up strategies like "guys if we dont get first turn lets reserve everything" speak out and say no that would super gay for an apoc game....  Dont be mean but remind your team that its about having fun first in apoc, winning second.
      2. Don't abuse the rules or lack of rules in apoc, Yes you can bring a Harlequin squad with a dark elder archon, and a sanguinary priest escorting Marneus Calgar who are backup by Fateweaver.....but you shouldn't because people would be obligated to donkey punch you.  Dont put your warlord titan in reserve so it can flank march and have your opponents go "oh didnt see that skyscraper sized titan back there...."

I guess what it really comes down is playing with people in the right mind set, then coming up with house rules so that folks can be sure their mind set is on the same level as the groups.  If a house rule steps on something someone wants to use bring it up with group and talk about it, if the whole group thinks its gay then just move on.  If you can get someone willing, make a Game Master, an impartial third party responsible for reviewing the lists, resolving Apoc rules snafu's, and possibly even setting up a cool scenario and/or secret missions.

so enough with that rant.... here's the list im planning to bring for this weekend of apoc slaughter!

Company Command Squad
2x Bodyguard
2x Grenade Launcher
Sergeant Kell
Carapace Armor
Commissar Yarrick

* This is gonna be a super fun squad, in Apoc they're really not overpowering but it should be great fun to drop them off and watch them melee it up IG style!

Steel Eagle Valkryie

* He is going to carry Straken into the heart of the enemy!

Vet Squad 
2x Melta
Grenade Launcher

HB sides

* This unit is going into the Vendetta and going with Straken into enemy lines.

Vet Squad 
2x Melta
Grenade Launcher


* Same, so they are my 3 Valkryie Wing of IG assault awsome

Vet Squad
3x Melta

Penal Legion Squad


3x Armored Sentinels W/Plasma Cannons

Demolisher Russ

Leman Russ W/Lascannon

Pysker Battle Squad

* So all this makes up my mainstay force, theyre going to be escorting my Steel Fury Formation below, the Legion will attempt to attack from the side as usual hopefully to assist Straken.

Steel Fury Formation
212 Arethusa
2x BaneBlades

So my plan is the Blade's push into the enemy with their bodyguards and Straken's force gets dropped off somewhere dangerous to melee it up.  Should be super fun if my blades dont get eaten by D weapons turn 1.... =)

Dont have a clue what i want for a strategic Asset at the moment...shield generator would be cool for the blades but i want them moving and D weapons could care less about their "obscured" save.  Ideas?


  1. If you're expecting D-spam and a dead Baneblade on turn 1... perhaps replacements to wipe the smile off their face?

    For fun filled carnage you can't go wrong with a vortex grenade. I've played against people who refuse to use them as being too unreliable. In the first game I used it I just missed a land raider, but then managed to kill 5 chimeras, a hellhound and a predator. The downside is that the land raider was enemy, the rest were mine... but it was cracking fun! Give it to Yarrick. Then if your command squad get's str D obliterated you've got a good chance of him getting back up and setting the grenade off to cause carnage in the enemy lines :oP

  2. "...but you shouldn't because people would be obligated to donkey punch you."

    Made my day with that quote...

    Anywho, I was shocked when I didn't see the baneblades in your list, but they showed up eventually. I think the reason people are going to be using massive titans is because that's when you can. It's the one time to use those scratch-built massive models, or the $600 creations from forgeworld. You better believe people are going to be fielding them.

    Personally, I'm a fan of using multiple big bugs because of the 20 minute turn and moving 3 models and firing three guns is a lot easier to manage than 800 gaunts...

    I like your points on what Apoc should be, and that's the reason you're invited to my Apoc games. However, if people are looking for a way to contribute without titans, an great strategy is simply to spam troops. 400 points gets you 55 guardsmen with 6 lascannons. 4000 points gets you 550 guardsmen with 60 lascannons. And there's nothing a titan heavy force can do about it... Sure it'll kill 20+ guard a turn... but it can't hide in combat, and those lascannons will hit eventually!

    I wanted to play with a Chaos force, but I just won't have time to put it together, so I'll be bringing the bugs (or maybe I'll get a real wild hair and bring marines). Tonight I'll make my list.

    See you Saturday!

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